Template:Did you know nominations/Environmental damage of Gaza caused by the Israel–Hamas war

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Environmental damage of Gaza caused by the Israel–Hamas war

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Created by John Cummings (talk).

Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 8 past nominations.

Post-promotion hook changes will be logged on the talk page; consider watching the nomination until the hook appears on the Main Page.

John Cummings (talk) 10:57, 9 April 2024 (UTC).

  • With four maintenance tags, this isn't going anywhere. Schwede66 00:04, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
Reopening per talk.--Launchballer 15:25, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Thanks again Launchballer, just FYI to whoever reviews this, I've addressed the maintainance tags and done a QPQ with Template:Did you know nominations/KDCD-TV. John Cummings (talk) 15:48, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Full review needed now that maintenance tags are addressed and QPQ has been submitted. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
thanks BlueMoonset, to the person reviewing it, please ping me with any questions :) John Cummings (talk) 16:18, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
  • @John Cummings:, I started a review, but didn't get past the first section. I understand that this is a delicate subject, but the opening fails Wikipedia:NPOV. Can you rework the opening section so it a little less "pointy"? --evrik (talk) 21:40, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Hi evrik thank you for looking at the article, I realise it is an emotive subject. I believe the intro to be a fair summary of the events and have used the same descriptors for the events as the sources, especially the academic study to try to make the article as accurate as possible. However there are limited sources available given the blockade and ban on journalists entering. I can't find any sources which despute that the destruction has happened or who destroyed the farms and trees. There are some more sources to go through but they mainly focus on the health impacts of the destruction. I've included the only quote I can find from the Israeli government in the body of the article. Can you tell me which words/phrases specifically you think are not balanced and how you would go about changing it? John Cummings (talk) 21:52, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
  • Tone down the hyperbole in the opening. If you can do that, ping me and I'll start the review again. --evrik (talk) 22:00, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
  • @Evrik: (I appreciate I'm butting in, but the page is on my watchlist) I'm not seeing hyperbole in the article, grim as it is; some specifics would be helpful for progressing the article. Richard Nevell (talk) 20:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
  • I edited two items in the article. It looks like the suggestions made here have been implemented and the article is as neutral as it can be. The article has the correct inline citations and it is both long enough and new enough to qualify for dyk. The hook is confirmed, in the article, and interesting. I prefer ALT0 as it introduces the word ecocide which is the subject of the article. The nominator has done a qpq. Regarding the stability of the article - it appears mostly -stable, just the nominator and myself have edited it today. Earwig has been down for me today so I have spot checked sources and did not find evidence of plagiarism. Bruxton (talk) 01:32, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Bruxton thanks very much for assessing it and for your additions to the article. John Cummings (talk) 08:21, 1 May 2024 (UTC)
Thank you for the hook @Rjjiii: it works and it confirmed with the sources. Bruxton (talk) 04:54, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Bruxton honestly I really dislike this solution, all the sources are very clear on the source of the vast vast majority of the destruction which is Israeli forces using bulldozers and bombs. It currently reads as passive voice with no information on who is doing the destruction. I understand the number of bombs has been taken issue with, my strong preference is:

... that Israel's systematic destruction of 38–48% of trees and farmland in Gaza using bulldozers and bombs has been described as an ecocide? Source: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/mar/29/gaza-israel-palestinian-war-ecocide-environmental-destruction-pollution-rome-statute-war-crimes-aoe

Thanks

John Cummings (talk) 10:47, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

As discussed at WT:DYK, that hook is not supported by the source. CMD (talk) 10:54, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
  • Keep in mind that WP:DYKHOOK says The hook should include a definite fact that is unlikely to change. Hooks that talk about a specific number of trees destroyed in an ongoing conflict can't possibly meet that requirement. RoySmith (talk) 12:44, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi RoySmith thanks for explaining this, the fact Israeli forces destroyed them and that they have been accused of ecocide I think both meet that requirement. 13:40, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi Chipmunkdavis, to take each part of the sentence and quote from the source in "s:

  • that Israel's : " Israel’s onslaught on Gaza’s ecosystems has made the area unlivable" and "satellite data that Israeli military activity had destroyed more than 65 sq km, or 38% of that land"
  • systematic : "Samaneh Moafi, FA’s assistant director of research, describes the destruction as systematic." and "The effects of this systematic agricultural destruction"
  • destruction of 38–48% of trees and farmland in Gaza : " shows the destruction of about 38-48% of tree cover and farmland"
  • using bulldozers and bombs : "farmland destroyed by bombs and bulldozers"
  • has been described as an ecocide? : "led to calls for it to be regarded as “ecocide” and investigated as a possible war crime"

One related question, is it possible to use a second link in the hook to further provide sources? I feel like this is is sufficient but others also state facts to back up the statement as well.

John Cummings (talk) 13:46, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Individual points may all be sourced, but they should not be synthed together to say something else. CMD (talk) 13:51, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi Chipmunkdavis thanks, can I check that you agree that all the invidvidual facts are supported by the source now? Could you describe what you think is synthesised? And what is "something else"? I feel like this sentence is an accurate summary of the facts. Thanks again, John Cummings (talk) 14:01, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
I have put details in the discussion at WT:DYK which I would ask you to refer to, but in general if your hook is trying to connect five different points it is unlikely to be accurate. Another example, not covered by WT:DYK, is you are claiming all 38-48% (not a small range) of the destruction is due to systematic bulldozing and bombing, while in actuality that is the total destruction caused by all actors and actions in the war. CMD (talk) 14:17, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
Hi Chipmunkdavis thanks for your reply, its got a bit difficult to keep track of everything when its spread across two pages. Can you say which part you think is unaccurate taking these 5 facts from the source? I know that there is some wood taken for firewood, however this and the other sources are clear, the vast vast majority of the trees have been destroyed by Israeli military "satellite data that Israeli military activity had destroyed more than 65 sq km, or 38% of that land". Would you be happy if the phrase was changed to 'more than 38% of trees and farmland' rather than '38% - 48%'? This would make it a direct quote from the source. My understanding of the % range in the information is simply that no one is allowed to enter Gaza to measure the destruction so the researchers made their study through remote sensing and that the amount of trees used for firewood is negligable and includes trees already felled by Israeli military. John Cummings (talk) 14:44, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
The synthing together of the five facts is the issue, not the individual facts. I suggest picking one in particular, and making a hook about that (although not the bombs and bulldozers one, that's mostly a dramatic turn of phrase, especially as we know they also used tanks). Looking at the article, 38% and 48% are actually separate points, 38% is from a study of farmland, 48% is specifically tree cover, two distinct albeit overlapping measurements. CMD (talk) 15:03, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi Chipmunkdavis, thanks for your reply, I'm unsure how I could use only one of the facts and make it a full sentence. Thanks for the suggestions about separating the tree destruction and farmland destruction and catching the use of tanks, I've integrated that into a new Alt. John Cummings (talk) 15:11, 15 May 2024 (UTC)

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